Dani Carnero: “The customer is clamoring for the end of the tasting menu”

It's not the first, nor will it be the last. Some have never removed the tasting menu from their restaurants, usually at exorbitant prices, where it was just one option among many; others, the majority, opened with the tasting menu as the sole guiding principle of the experience and continue with this formula; some have grown tired of it seeming to be the only way for award-winning cuisine to express itself and have added a system that allows diners to choose from a series of courses to create their own menu at a fixed price, in a kind of star-studded daily menu. Restaurants like 1911, Skina, Lasarte, and Caelis do this, for example.

Dani Carnero, chef of La Cosmopolita, La Cosmo, and Kaleja, has opted for this latter option at his gastronomic restaurant. Starting this autumn, in his dining room or at that vibrant bar in the heart of Málaga, Carnero's bars are always buzzing, you can choose a 3+1 or 4+1 option, which translates to an aperitif, three or four starters chosen from six, a main course chosen from two, and a dessert (€85). One of his two tasting menus, the shorter one, has been discontinued. The longer menu, which had already been reduced from 19 courses to 12, remains priced at €130.

We chatted with him at one of the bare tables in his restaurant, surrounded by papers, French charcuterie books, "I've got some kid goat from Cerrón that's out of this world, and I want to make a terrine with it", and a notepad whose cover he scribbled on with a pencil as he spoke. Later, he'd keep that same pencil in his mouth throughout the service, during which we'd get to try the new menu that breathes new life into Kaleja and is pure Dani Carnero.

What is the reason for this change?

We can't deny it anymore: the public is clamoring for it. They want more freedom. So I'm going back to basics, to listening to people. Look, here's an example: I run into a friend at La Cosmo and he tells me he didn't come to see me at Kaleja because he can't afford it. When I check the bill, they've spent over 270 euros eating standing up with the bathroom right next door. Kaleja's set menu is 100 euros. "But I ordered the whole menu!" he replies.

So it's not an economic issue.

It's freedom! They're practically singing it to us. And besides, they don't want all those rules we've imposed: the schedule, the dress code, having to agree on when to go out for smoke breaks, to use the bathroom… You introduce a series of rules that don't suit you. That's how we've been raised, and we've been told that's how it has to be. I can understand it at Diverxo, because there are 38 courses, and if I go out for a smoke five times, we're working nine hours, but not everyone is the same.

Freedom for the diner, but also for the kitchen.

I've grown tired of it too, because my approach to cooking is different. I prefer having this card game and being able to handle the ingredients in a different way.

Is your cuisine still alive within the tasting model?

Yes, because we change the menu a lot, but it doesn't have the freshness it had at the bar of La Cosmopolita or at La Cosmo, because my real cuisine, the true one, Dani Carnero's cuisine, is the "arrive-take-pow" kind [he claps his hands on the table]. It's direct. That's lost here, but that's because I've also let it be lost.

Do you think it was a mistake to have done it?

No, but I'm much better known for La Cosmopolita than for Kaleja. Two weeks ago, Albert Adrià, where did he come? Here or to La Cosmopolita? There! Let's be honest. This doesn't mean I'm not happy with Kaleja, but this is what I'm experiencing now. And why can't the two coexist? If people who come to Kaleja ask me for the spider crab omelet, why can't I serve it to them? Where is it specified? And I can beat myself up by saying it's because I'm not good here.

If you're a good cook, you're good everywhere, right?

Someone once told me I wasn't such a bad cook if I'd managed to create iconic dishes, that I had roasted peppers, calamari, bone marrow with prawns, and that there are people with huge careers who don't have them. But I have my share of setbacks too. And Albert went to La Cosmopolita.

You've added this menu format, but you haven't eliminated the tasting menu. Are you afraid of Michelin?

Michelin is amazing. Michelin fills your restaurant, but they're your master. Everyone wants a piece of the pie. I want to keep my pie. And they never tell you, "It fits right in." We're the ones who've made that interpretation. We're afraid to make moves, although I think this one will validate me; I'm almost convinced.

And is it out of fear of losing customers?

My customers, the ones who've been my customers for 20 years, where are they? Not in Kaleja. They're in the other places. This place was full of foreigners last night. Just because I'm putting this à la carte menu on offer doesn't mean my customers are going to come, but the truth is, that's partly what I'm hoping for.

Foreigners are good customers for restaurants.

He knows a lot and really enjoys himself. There are others who don't, as is also the case among locals. But I don't speak English, so I can't engage with the enjoyer, argue, or flatter him. I was in a four-person kitchen with Safe [Cruz, Gofio], and since our food was all stew and already prepared, I didn't go into the kitchen. I served the food, served the wine, chatted with the customers. I can't do that here! It's my problem; I get overwhelmed. I ask Carlos [the head waiter] to translate for me, but it's awkward, so I just skip it. And this has nothing to do with the Michelin stars. The truth is, I can't talk to the customers, and I need a new arrangement that allows me to.

Is there also an economic reason behind the change?

I've noticed a decline here for the past few months. I don't see it at the other locations, only here. And it's not our fault. I blame it a bit on the city. I think we're losing our good customers.

And what about the local customer?

The restaurant, in the center of Málaga, is now completely unwelcome. And the number of good customers has decreased this year. It makes sense. How many good hotels do we have? Three? Four? Multiply that by the number of rooms, and that's the most we've had. And then there are people with money who go to eat at other restaurants that focus on quality ingredients, like Los Marinos or Hermanos Alba, because they're not interested in tasting menus and want to spend thousands of euros on bottles. We've done a good job with our wine selection, but fine dining restaurants don't offer top-quality wines, unlike other types of restaurants. Then there's Etxebarri, of course, but you end up with a sea bream or a ribeye steak.

Is pairing another cage?

Of course! Customers who come in and don't know much about wine go straight for the pairing. And it's the same with foreigners. Wine is served, sure, but not the kind of wine that should be served. We haven't been able to sell the idea that there's enjoyment to be had here too. The tasting menu is a bottleneck for customers, and there are still those who are obsessed with the idea that you don't get much food or that it's just big plates with tiny bites. We're still stuck in that mindset.

Are you still cooking as if you didn't have a Michelin star?

I've never thought about the dish from the perspective of a Michelin star. What is true is that you're very good at one-bite dishes, and when you try to translate that to a menu like the new one, which has four courses, well, I look foolish because I just can't do it. Besides, what I want is freshness. Because the new à la carte menu can't be fixed or the same for a month. If we want to be authentic, it can't be so pre-planned. If anchovies are in the menu, then I'll serve live grilled anchovies. That doesn't fit with Michelin? Well, they'll tell me the truth starting in October.

How will it be received?

I don't know what's going to happen, but I do know that if the "Pepes" come here and eat and are happy, I couldn't care less about anything else. I'm more concerned about the new customer, the one who's coming for the first time. I know you're going to say, "Dani served me a silver anchovy, it was wonderful, so fresh," but then there are those who come to a Michelin-starred restaurant, with their jackets and their topknots. If you serve them some anchovies...

The expectations that have been generated for a Michelin-starred restaurant.

Of course. And then they run into this. You often realize they're thinking about something else. But what did they expect!

Do you think anyone will take it as an act of rebellion by Dani Carnero?

I hope not. It doesn't worry me either. I'd hate for them to think I've taken the easy way out. Some people say my cooking is easy because I cook well. Well, you cook well, if you want! There are examples of more complex cuisine, like Andoni's [Luis Aduriz, Mugaritz] or more artistic cuisine like Edu's [Pérez, Tohqa]. I'm not interested in thinking while I eat. There are other things in my life for thinking. When I eat, I eat. I've taken the blow from Mugaritz and Tohqa because I'm also open-minded, but I don't think a regular customer is what I'm looking for.

Edu is closing Tohqa. Have you ever considered closing everything down?

Yes, but not because the cage pressures me. I hate doing the same thing every day. It's because I hate monotony, I absolutely hate it. I'm disorganized, but because I like living in chaos. I'd love to be a Bittor from Etxebarri and cook the same thing every day. I'm not like that. Today I told my team that we're bringing back the roasted peppers and the calamari. Normally, I would never have taken them out of my kitchen. Well, I did. And today they're back after more than a year. And without warning.

Are you tired of having to constantly create?

I'm more interested in understanding than creating. Maybe it's because I can't or don't know how to create, but I'm 51 years old and there are things in gastronomy that I still don't understand. For a while now, we've been forced to be creative, and that way we never really understand what we're doing.

And memory?

I haven't jumped on the bandwagon of nostalgia; I've always cooked this way.

Has that discourse already worn out?

Now the discourse is about not having a discourse. But there's always one.

Do you think this restaurant model will die with the chefs of your generation?

If we look at France, which has always been ahead of the curve, we see that the big names are no longer the main focus. It's a different scene, a different vibe. People don't talk about chefs anymore, but about restaurants. They talk about Septime, not the chef. But let's go to this country. We have a restaurant that's always packed, 1911. Everyone is happy there. And what's the head chef's name? Do you know? I don't. And I can't go there to eat because there's always a waiting list. But we do know the one from outside.

Have people gotten tired of so many names?

We're tired of it. It's always the same. What we think is important, the rest of the world couldn't care less about. We've been given this huge aura, all that MasterChef and all that history, all that self-indulgence.

Looking back to 2019, the year of the opening, how would you summarize these years of Kaleja?

It's perfect. It's a business that never lost money, even during the pandemic. I have a team of 15 guys I can give three days off a week, and I try to provide them with a good quality of life. I have a business that doesn't give me any problems. But I'm not interested in being bored.